NEC code Conduit Bend
BICSI
Welcome to the New BICSI Forums Community

Note:
NEW UPDATE: The Public forums are now sorted in a new order for easy browsing. We also fixed the issue with uploading large attachments. If you need any assistance please contact technical@bicsi.org.

BICSI Forums Community
Home      Members   Calendar   Who's On
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
      


12»»

NEC code Conduit BendExpand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:56 AM
Junior Member

Junior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:50 PM
Posts: 14, Visits: 39
what does NEC state for installing pull points in conduit runs?

Currently our electrician installed a 4" emt the has (4) 90 bends within about 50' run.

Post #1127
Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:13 PM


Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 9:47 AM
Posts: 94, Visits: 806
JD (4/23/2008)
what does NEC state for installing pull points in conduit runs?

Currently our electrician installed a 4" emt the has (4) 90 bends within about 50' run.

 

In the 2008 NEC, 358.26 "There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes." So, based solely on the the number of bends, and the fact that it is EMT, it does meet code requirements (at least for the 2008 NEC, but I think earlier versions are similar).

But, if the emt is to be used for telecom cabling, this number of bends is outside of what is accepted by standard and guidelines.

Doug Weis, RCDD, ESS

doug.weis@hei-eng.com

Post #1129
Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:19 PM


Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Thursday, June 19, 2014 12:19 PM
Posts: 264, Visits: 1,940
NEC 2008:
358.26 - Bends Number In One Run
There shall not be more than the equivilent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.

ANSI/TIA/EIA-569-B:
8.8.2.2 Bends
No section of conduit shall contain more than two 90-degree bends, or equivalent between pull points.

Post #1130
Posted Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:45 PM
Forum Member

Forum MemberForum MemberForum MemberForum MemberForum MemberForum MemberForum MemberForum Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, October 08, 2010 5:40 PM
Posts: 31, Visits: 517
This is too many bends, telecommunications cabling calls for 2 bends between bull points.  In some cases you can get away with three bends but not four.  A third bend may be acceptable if the total run is less than 33 ft, the conduit size is increased, or one of the bends is located within 12 inches of the cable feed end.

Future Technology Consultants
New York, New York
Post #1133
Posted Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:19 PM
Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, October 15, 2010 11:52 AM
Posts: 86, Visits: 264
You may wish to present them with a copy of the section in TIA-569 as the previous poster has identified. The installation you describe might be fine with the NEC, but not to TIA Standards.

You may also want to note to them about not using pull points (j-boxes to in electrician-speak) as turns. What might be acceptable to electricians really causes us pain in this field.

Post #1145
Posted Friday, May 02, 2008 6:55 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 10:33 AM
Posts: 2, Visits: 3
Just don't forget that Code is Law. It pertains to safety.

Standards pertain to operational performance.

Codes don't give crap about standards.

Your electrician will probably not budge.
Post #1202
Posted Friday, May 02, 2008 3:02 PM


Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Friday, July 25, 2014 8:03 AM
Posts: 94, Visits: 277
Any electrician is going to argue that he is within the code.  The only hope you have to get them to change it is in the pre-installation documentation. 

And as far as what 569 states for number of bends between pull boxes goes, IMHO far too many people try to regurgitate letters on a page without considering the intent of the standard.  How many cables are going in this 4" conduit?  That is what is going to dictate the pulling tension of the installed cable.  If the cable can be pulled with less than 25lbs of pulling force (taking future installations into account) then you have satisfied the intent of that standard.  

I am not offering this as a means to continually circumvent the standards.  I just see people throw their hands up and call an installation shoddy because real world conditions don't allow for strict adherance to the letter of the standards.  Each situation needs to be considered keeping the intent in mind. In this example we are considering the number of bends in the 4", has the number of work stations the 4" is serving been considered in the sizing and number of conduits? 

Post #1206
Posted Friday, May 02, 2008 3:43 PM


Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 9:47 AM
Posts: 94, Visits: 806
lacaire (5/2/2008)
Any electrician is going to argue that he is within the code.  The only hope you have to get them to change it is in the pre-installation documentation. 

And as far as what 569 states for number of bends between pull boxes goes, IMHO far too many people try to regurgitate letters on a page without considering the intent of the standard.  How many cables are going in this 4" conduit?  That is what is going to dictate the pulling tension of the installed cable.  If the cable can be pulled with less than 25lbs of pulling force (taking future installations into account) then you have satisfied the intent of that standard.  

I am not offering this as a means to continually circumvent the standards.  I just see people throw their hands up and call an installation shoddy because real world conditions don't allow for strict adherance to the letter of the standards.  Each situation needs to be considered keeping the intent in mind. In this example we are considering the number of bends in the 4", has the number of work stations the 4" is serving been considered in the sizing and number of conduits? 

One potential problem with your statement is that it appears to assume that the same contractor will be performing both the conduit/raceway installation and the cable installation. One reason for standards is the eliminate finger pointing. If Contractor "A" provides 4" emt with four 90 degree bends in 50 feet, and Contractor "B" pulls the cable, who is at fault if the cables don't pass the test, or they become abraided and are ruined during pulling? Is it the contractor "A" because he didn't follow standards or is it Contractor "B" because he didn't use enough care in his work?

I'd hate to try to sort out that situation.

Doug Weis, RCDD, ESS

doug.weis@hei-eng.com

Post #1207
Posted Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:43 PM
Junior Member

Junior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior MemberJunior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:37 PM
Posts: 20, Visits: 22
All too often, the electrical and communications pathway specifications do not reference each other, or TIA/EIA-569B.

Division 27 in the 2004 MasterFormat includes communications pathways. This gives the communications contractor the responsibility for ensuring that the cable pathways are installed to Standards, rather than Code.


Scott Bennett, RCDD
Network Foundation Design, LLC
Post #1546
Posted Monday, July 28, 2008 9:04 AM
Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:27 PM
Posts: 59, Visits: 249
It all comes down to this, the NEC code is enforceable by the local authority having jurisdiction (local electrical inspector). TIA is only a recommended practice which is not enforceable unless written in a contract specification and can only be enforced by the agent writing the contract.

So unless it was written in a contract to limit two bends between pull points, the electrician is going to hold firm unless you want to pay him to re do the work.


DereckC MSEE, PE

Moderator Mike Holt Code Forum

Post #1548
« Prev Topic | Next Topic »

12»»

All times are GMT -5:00, Time now is 3:01am

©2011 - BICSI, Inc. All rights reserved. Advertise With Us | Press Room | Legal Disclaimer | Vision | Antitrust | Ethics Information | FAQ